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Have I Done Game Development Wrong? (Forums : General Banter : Have I Done Game Development Wrong?) Locked
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May 5 2016 Anchor

To cut a long story short, I've spent about 5-10 years making games and mods. Starting from small Space Invaders clones and silly texture mods, and working my up, learning the basics and getting more complex with each project.

Did I waste 5-10 years on taking the wrong path?

Back when I first started, it was common to see mods (usually for Half Life 2) be announced that bit off way more than the modder could chew, and after a few concept arts and a 3D render of an AK47, the mod would be cancelled. These days I notice the opposite. Some guy will decide, seemingly on a whim, that he wants to make a game. Yet despite no coding or art experience, they would disappear for a few months/years, and then appear with a game that wouldn't look out of place on a phone or the Nintendo e-shop.

May 5 2016 Anchor

I don't know what you look at since it's even worse than before. The huge majority of game projects are announced to be the next universe changing game (but really a clone or big-hit franchise based) and after some month (at best) the project is dead since they have no clue what amount of work goes into it. And then you have the asset-shop-developers. They go and buy all their stuff from asset and script shops, slap it together, throwing it out to the public under huge drama and then vanish into oblivion soon after since let's be honest what merit has a game made of bought assets with bought scripts with no good idea behind. No, it's worse than before. You have certainly done nothing wrong. Those doing it wrong at the idea-guys and asset-shop-developers.

TKAzA
TKAzA Rightio then...
May 5 2016 Anchor

Keep modding and developing, showcase your skills and network with the developers of the games you mod.

May 5 2016 Anchor

Well, it is bad when developers come up with cheap projects; buy all the stuff from asset shops without actually modifying or adapting anything, which sometimes may even take as much time as creating those assets. Stock assets used in their original form are no good for final games, they are only useful for quick prototypes.

It is only slightly worrying. In the end, the community has a way of correcting those mistakes and giving more attention to well-made games and killing bad ones. A bunch of forgotten project stubs and asset-shop-filled games will not turn the tide of awesome indies coming out every year.

May 6 2016 Anchor

Hmm, it depends on what you spend your time on in these past 5-10 years. I went from making a mod to being lucky enough to land a job making an indie game and now I'm working on my own game I started in 2008 and it's now 2016 that's about 9 years where I went from not knowing much at all to, well, still learning haha but I gained a life time worth of experience and it never ends.

I also am working with marketplace assets and it takes time to fully utilize them in a meaningful way but after I got them all properly set up and optimized I can use them in a large number of ways. I've gotten zero complaints so far because of the effort I put into customizing them (for instance I can change their base color) and the way I used them. I saw this one project that literally used the example level that came with the pack and the guy just added in stuff. I't so lazy and pisses me off. Another game called To the Moon. They've done a lot of work and at least made their own levels etc, but I could instantly see which assets they use and they also seem to heavily rely on this one specific asset pack. Now they did put in the effort and work and they also have their own unique assets but it stood out to me so much...

People will be able to see what I'm using if you look close enough, but I don't just use one pack and I mix them up in many ways, So it depends on what your specialized in, what you've learned yourself and how active you are as a developer.


Edited by: joure

May 6 2016 Anchor

I might be blunt now but "changing base color" doesn't cut it for me when it gets down to asset re-use. I'm kinda sneezy when it gets to asset reusing. Too many just buy majority of their game content to the level it's not funny anymore and dish out something without much brain or work others spend lots of time upon to make it unique and with own content. It's not only in online games where "pay-to-win" kills everything.

EDIT: To clarify this a bit... if you reuse a lot assets from shops you should stop making games since you have not understood what it's all about and you are lacking the passion and commitment required for it.

Edited by: Dragonlord

May 6 2016 Anchor

Looking at the majority of games made with stuff bought from the asset store I would highly agree with your statement except that not everyone has the luxury of being able to make a game from scratch. I wish I had dedicated artists who can put all their time into the game I'm working on, but that's just not going to happen unless I get lucky. It also depends on how you use these assets and what your goal is. A game made with love, care and passion will still alleviate it from all the crap that's spewed out there these days.

The game I'm working on got a lot of positive feedback, mostly in the visual department which wasn't even my goal. There are ways to properly use these packs if you put the dedication and attention into them to lift them higher to a better quality standard. That said, I hope that after this game I will be able to expand and actually hire full time artists and yes, make assets from the ground up. I also don't hide the fact that I'm using these packs because what's the point? I rather impress people with that fact then trying to hide it.

I completely understand where you're coming from just take a look at Jim Sterlings channel and it's obvious how many lazy people there are out there but as with everything there are exceptions. :)

May 6 2016 Anchor

Dragonlord, maybe I've been looking in the wrong places? I remember back in the modding days, it seemed fairly often that some mod would build up a bit of hype, and then disappear. I don't see that much nowadays, unless you're talking about shovelware that floods phones and steam greenlight?

Those well made indie games seem to include alot of people who started programming for the first time. A great example was DUST: An Elysian Tale. Admittedly, it took him years, but and it was a huge success, but I'm using that because it's something people likely have heard of. Some guys, like the guy that made Banned Memories, or Hotline Miami, had years of building small games and prototypes before their big break. Again, these are well known names, but it's for sake of example. It used to seem like Hotline was the norm, and Dust the exception. Now it's starting to seem like the other way around?

On the subject of pre-paid assests, I'm not sure. On the one hand, I'm with you guys saying that they should only be used for prototypes. I'm not a good artist, but I have to do it if I want original art for my game. Bit on the other, I'm a bit of a fan of gamemaker. People complained that it was drag-and-drop game development, and given the amount of gamemaker crap out there, I understood why. But there was good stuff made with it. Since Hotline Miami came out and the stigma mostly disappeared. I guess I'm fine with pre-made assets provided they are used well. I've just not seen that yet, or if I have, I haven't noticed.

A bit off topic, but this is something that I remember bringing up back in the day. Why does every mod need to spend time re-making the same AK47 for their mod, especially given most of the art styles were the same or similar? Films re-use props and sets alot, such as the Starship Troopers uniforms appearing in Power Rangers. There are also certain stock sound effects that turn up all over the place. Not just the Wilhelm Scream, but other sound effects. Obviously I can't give a good example in text, but certain sounds like specific gunshots and footstep sounds appear in TV, film, and games all the time. The only studio I know that really re-uses assets is Valve. Point is, I never got why games didn't re-use or share assets given the effort required to make them, especially for games set in the real world, where things are going to look similar regardless. It's kind of a shame asset shops appeared as games started moving away from realism, and their reputation has been spoiled by some people throwing together some pre-paid assets without any thought and calling it a day.

Edited by: SabreXT

May 7 2016 Anchor

SabreXT, I'll ignore the discussion about using paid asset or not using paid asset and ask this straight out: are you happy with what you've done so far? and what is actually the right path for you?

I can see complaints in your post but I'm missing main point of this discussion. With those two questions answered, hopefully we can get the real point of this :)


Edited by: DarkBloodbane

May 7 2016 Anchor

Am I happy with what I've done so far? It depends what you mean, but not really. My games mostly consist of either unfinished demos, crap, or derivative crap. There are a few texture replacement mods I liked, but that was fairly minor stuff. Nothing release worthy.

What is actually the right path? I don't know.

May 8 2016 Anchor

Oh I see, allow me to ask this, do you want to become game developer in the future or are just happy as a modder?

May 11 2016 Anchor
joure wrote:

Hmm, it depends on what you spend your time on in these past 5-10 years. I went from making a mod to being lucky enough to land a job making an indie game and now I'm working on my own game I started in 2008 and it's now 2016 that's about 9 years where I went from not knowing much at all to, well, still learning haha but I gained a life time worth of experience and it never ends.

I also am working with marketplace assets and it takes time to fully utilize them in a meaningful way but after I got them all properly set up and optimized I can use them in a large number of ways. I've gotten zero complaints so far because of the effort I put into customizing them (for instance I can change their base color) and the way I used them. I saw this one project that literally used the example level that came with the pack and the guy just added in stuff. I't so lazy and pisses me off. Another game called To the Moon. They've done a lot of work and at least made their own levels etc, but I could instantly see which assets they use and they also seem to heavily rely on this one specific asset pack. Now they did put in the effort and work and they also have their own unique assets but it stood out to me so much...

People will be able to see what I'm using if you look close enough, but I don't just use one pack and I mix them up in many ways, So it depends on what your specialized in, what you've learned yourself and how active you are as a developer.


Sorry the quoting seems to be way off.

I had a mod which i started solo in 2004 then i had gained a small team in 2004/05 which we were successful for a short period team of in 06/07 but then my mod team felt apart, some went their own separate ways or had their own life issues i was the only one left whom was dedicated with the mod future combat system everyone had high hopes for it.

With that being said i had a good team and learned my mistakes as a team manager. As for what you should do well if you enjoy modding keep on modding if you want to make your own game make sure you want yourself some very dedicated team members that would stick with you till the game project finishes.

I am looking forward to be working in the games industry in the near future.

Edited by: GamerWolfOps

May 11 2016 Anchor

It' easier said than done getting dedicated team members... especially in certain parts of the world. Majority of game-devs have not access to other team members no matter how much they want it to.

May 11 2016 Anchor

Oh I see, allow me to ask this, do you want to become game developer in the future or are just happy as a modder?

I'm not sure what you mean.

It's easier said than done getting dedicated team members.

This.

My experience is that people will be really excited the first day or 2, but when it comes to actually working on it, they flake out and don't deliver. This is why I think you have to do everything (or almost everything) yourself. I have no experience with sound or music, and that's an area that doesn't appeal to me much, but I might have to learn it when the time comes.

Edited by: SabreXT

Cpazz
Cpazz Maker of things
May 11 2016 Anchor

I wouldn't say that there is a wrong way, per-say. With the exceptions of plagiarism and the get-rich-quick mentality. Just keep doing what you think is the right way, adapt to the changes in the development scene, and pour your passion into it. Again, I don't think there is a wrong way of developing, so long as you can plan that is.

May 12 2016 Anchor

This is pretty much why I wouldn't join a team as it's too easy for people to flake out or get caught in real world issues. I would actually like to work with someone else but I can see it turning into a nightmare.

I was in the same boat when it came to sound effects and music. I've got some royalty free sound effects that I use as a base and have also recorded some from scratch and then edit with Audacity. As for the music, I've only ever put music into one game and used a cheap drag and drop music creator as I have no musical talent what so ever.

As for the initial question of whether you're developing games correctly or not and if it's a waste of time it really depends on why you're doing it in the first place. I can fully understand why someone would use store bought assets to bash out a game and try and make a quick buck.

May 13 2016 Anchor

Just keep doing what you think is the right way, adapt to the changes in the development scene, and pour your passion into it

That! Couldn't agree more than this

I don't think there is a wrong way of developing, so long as you can plan that is

and as long you are happy about it :D

I'm not sure what you mean.

I mean, what is your main purpose of game developing? is it for getting money OR is it as a hobby?

Iceberger3
Iceberger3 Iceberger3
May 17 2016 Anchor

Making games isn't just about what you produce. Its about the experience and the fun that you have when you do it. Personally I have a passion for making mobile games, so I love just seeing the fact that I have an app on the app store!

--

Check out my game Toast! - Google Play - iTunes

May 20 2016 Anchor

I mean, what is your main purpose of game developing? is it for getting money OR is it as a hobby?

There's money in game development? :P

But seriously, outside of the lucky few, or early pioneers, it seems like pro devs often struggle to make a living.

Edit- To clarify, I do it for a number of reasons. Some of it is that I want to play these games, and the only way they'll get made is for me to do it.

Edited by: SabreXT

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